Collaborative Software Design • E. van Kelle, G. Verschatse, K. Baas-Schwegler & X. Yao • GOTO 2024

This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. #GOTOcon #GOTObookclub http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Read the full transcription of the interview here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/346 Evelyn van Kelle - Behavioral Change Consultant at Xebia & Co-Author of "Collaborative Software Design" @evelynvankelle9444 Gien Verschatse - Senior Consultant at Aardling & Co-Author of "Collaborative Software Design" @gienverschatse9261 Kenny Baas-Schwegler - Collaborative Modeling Facilitator at Weave IT & Co-Author of "Collaborative Software Design" @kennybaas-schwegler2730 Xin Yao - Independent Consultant Contextualizing DDD & Sociotechnical Architecture RESOURCES Evelyn https://bsky.app/profile/evelynvankelle.bsky.social https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelynvankelle https://x.com/EvelynvanKelle https://evelynvankelle.com Gien https://bsky.app/profile/selketjah.bsky.social https://www.linkedin.com/in/gien-verschatse https://github.com/selketjah https://x.com/selketjah https://www.gienverschatse.com Kenny https://bsky.app/profile/kenny.weave-it.org https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenny-baas https://mastodon.social/@kenny_baas https://weave-it.org Xin https://bsky.app/profile/settling-mud.bsky.social https://www.linkedin.com/in/xinxin Links https://collaborative-software-design.com https://bsky.app/profile/collaborative-software-design.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/collaborative-software-design https://youtu.be/NGXl1D-KwRI http://katymilkman.com/podcast https://barryoreilly.com DESCRIPTION In a spirited discussion on collaborative modeling and decision-making, the the authors of “Collaborative Software Design: How to Facilitate Domain Modeling Decisions”—Evelyn vVan Kelle, Gien Verschatse, and Kenny Baas-Schwegler—explored the power of inclusive decision-making, shared understanding, and how to navigate social dynamics like bias, ranking and conflict in teams together with Xin Yao. They highlighted the importance of facilitating not just through structured methods, but by empowering everyone in the team to contribute and lead decisions. Drawing from their experiences, they shared insights into the process of making better decisions through collaboration, the impact of "Deep Democracy", and the value of being able to step back and allow teams to thrive independently. Their conversation also touched on resources like Thinking, Fast and Slow, Jam Cultures, and Sitting in the Fire—tools to help teams make smarter decisions and grow together. TIMECODES 00:00 Intro 09:28 Challenges of writing a book collaboratively 14:40 Understanding shadows & their role in collaboration 26:00 The challenge of brownfield complexity 31:17 Understanding & managing tech. debt through collaborative decision-making 37:27 Moments of fulfillment in facilitation 44:20 Resources for collaborative modeling & decision-making 48:50 Outro RECOMMENDED BOOKS van Kelle, Verschatse &Baas-Schwegler • Collaborative Software Design • https://amzn.to/4iv0N8I Jitske Kramer • Jam Cultures • https://amzn.to/3ONLRVC Danielle Braun & Jitske Kramer • The Corporate Tribe • https://amzn.to/4iqUaEl Arnold Mindell • Sitting in the Fire • https://amzn.to/3ZJ374z Daniel Kahneman • Thinking, Fast and Slow • https://amzn.to/4is0Jqb Gerard Puccio • The Creative Thinker's Toolkit • https://amzn.to/3ZOzfE2 Diana Montalion • Learning Systems Thinking • https://amzn.to/3ZpycdJ Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais • Team Topologies • http://amzn.to/3sVLyLQ https://bsky.app/profile/gotocon.com https://twitter.com/GOTOcon https://www.linkedin.com/company/goto- https://www.instagram.com/goto_con https://www.facebook.com/GOTOConferences #SoftwareDesign #CollaborativeSoftwareDesign #Facilitation #Collaboration #BrownfieldComplexity #Complexity #DDD #SoftwareEngineering #Programming #EvelynVanKelle #GienVerschatse #KennyBaasSchwegler #XinYao #BookClub CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket at https://gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHANNEL - new videos posted almost daily. https://www.youtube.com/user/GotoConferences/?sub_confirmation=1