Tap into Fast Flow w/ Team Topologies & Platform Engineering • Manuel Pais & Julian Wood • GOTO 2025

This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. #GOTOcon #GOTOunscripted https://gotopia.tech Read the full transcription of this interview here: https://gotopia.tech/articles/354 Manuel Pais - Co-Author of the Book "Team Topologies" @manupaisable Julian Wood - Serverless Developer Advocate at AWS @julian_wood RESOURCES Manuel https://x.com/manupaisable https://www.manuelpais.net https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuelpais https://github.com/manupaisable Julian https://bsky.app/profile/julianwood.com https://twitter.com/julian_wood http://www.wooditwork.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/julianrwood Links https://teamtopologies.com https://academy.teamtopologies.com https://www.teamperature.com https://itrevolution.com https://matthewskelton.com https://youtu.be/vvFdTp54gII https://youtu.be/xICfIyEMD7E https://youtu.be/iyUgBcYLHdA https://youtu.be/HKS5sKsIkkc https://youtu.be/FbV9EFHnGOE https://youtu.be/lpNzR0fvxDw https://youtu.be/-5kK50d-duc https://youtu.be/mTSu0clAP-c https://youtu.be/vQteH0qcVjE https://youtu.be/xTUePYLtsyE https://youtu.be/oSHiAT4RGFA https://youtu.be/La-oAqRr6cM https://youtu.be/k9lwn-RqEsE https://youtu.be/pzlqeX9nh1g https://youtu.be/52248wDuOKM https://youtu.be/ul5vjXTNSsE https://youtu.be/yrdjKUtF-Ng DESCRIPTION Manuel Pais, co-author of Team Topologies, shares his journey in shaping modern organizational design for fast-flow efficiency with Julian Wood. Reflecting on the widespread impact of the book, Manuel explores how its principles have enabled organizations to redefine team structures, streamline value delivery, and balance cognitive load. The discussion covers communication challenges, the evolution of platform engineering, and strategies for iterative team reorganization. Manuel also addresses the growing influence of AI in software development, emphasizing the need for human oversight, strategic alignment with value streams, and enabling teams to harness AI effectively. With insights from real-world implementations and evolving trends, this episode provides a comprehensive guide to building adaptable, customer-focused, and innovative organizations. TIMECODES 00:00 Intro 00:45 5 Years of Team Topologies 06:19 Bridging communication gaps with Team Topologies 14:04 Unlocking fast flow by managing cognitive load 20:50 The role of full-stack devs in high-performing teams 24:32 Building effective platforms 33:10 Starting small for sustainable organizational change 37:49 Common pitfalls in implementing "Team Topologies" 42:12 The impact of AI on software development & Team Topologies 47:42 Building organizational capability for AI in software development 50:18 Outro RECOMMENDED BOOKS Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais • Team Topologies • http://amzn.to/3sVLyLQ Susanne Kaiser • Adaptive Systems With Domain-Driven Design, Wardley Mapping & Team Topologies • https://amzn.to/3XTmNCc Heidi Helfand • Dynamic Reteaming • https://amzn.to/3Fvu5BA Gene Kim, Kevin Behr & George Spafford • The Phoenix Project • https://amzn.to/3X9cYxa Gene Kim, Nicole Forsgren & Jez Humble • Accelerate • https://amzn.to/3WCG5uT Gene Kim, Jez Humble, Patrick Debois, John Willis & Nicole Forsgren • The DevOps Handbook • https://amzn.to/3WBjzCM Jonathan Smart • Sooner Safer Happier • https://amzn.to/4hvwf5n https://twitter.com/GOTOcon https://www.linkedin.com/company/goto- https://www.instagram.com/goto_con https://www.facebook.com/GOTOConferences #TeamTopologies #Communication #TeamCommunication #Flow #FastFlow #CognitiveLoad #HighPerformingTeams #Effectiveplatforms #PlatformEngineering #PlatformAsAProduct #ManuelPais #JulianWood CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket at https://gotopia.tech Sign up for updates and specials at https://gotopia.tech/newsletter SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHANNEL - new videos posted almost daily. https://www.youtube.com/user/GotoConferences/?sub_confirmation=1